Re: Sniper Wolf, This Arguement, Etc.

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: : No I certainly did not. I SAID that there are some instances where you have no choice but to follow orders, regardless of your personal feelings toward them. And there are a number of occupations besides the military where this scenario comes into play. (IE:Nurses, Police) : And I think that you always have a choice whether or not you should follow orders. You weigh the results of your actions, and you take the one that is most benificial. If you don't believe you should be doing something, then don't do it. Besides, nurses, doctors and police officers are working in the public good. If they don't feel that what they're doing is right, they definately shouldn't be doing it. : : Okay, this is completely unfounded. You show me who PROVED the earth was not created in 7 days. It may have existed for eons before man did, but WHERE and WHO has proven that it was not created in such a fashion. ACTUAL PROOF, not just hypotheses and educated guesses. : I'm pretty sure it was proven that our solar system was created by matter flung away from our sun, as part of the explosion of matter from the big bang. Let me see if I can find some references on that... : http://novan.com/solar.htm : This guy has a synopsis of his book, which describes how the sun was a lot larger than it was, it went nova, and a bunch of the matter thrown off collected in orbit as our solar system. The ISBN number is there if you want to take out the book and check his scientific sources, but I've heard this explanation before and I don't doubt the physics behind it. I seem to remember that from the expansion of the solar system and the orbital decay of the various planets they were able to backtrack and determine the approximate time of the creation. It's been a long time since I was in high school science though, so I could have the details wrong. : : : Adam and Eve weren't the first animals on the earth. : : Whoever said they were? The Bible says they were the first humans on the planet, not the first animals. (IE: The snake and the apple) : Okay, let me put it a different way: animals and mankind did not just suddenly appear in a fully developed state on the planet. There's simply too much evidence to try and dispute evolution at this point. : Not to mention all the alternate creation stories that were written at the same time as the story of Adam and Eve, but didn't have the same anti-feminine viewpoint. If you'd like I can get my girlfriend to find some more resources from her religious studies classes, where they showed alternate versions that were written for a lot of the stories in the bible, and how the people who put the bible together chose male-centered, anti-female versions so they could shift power towards themselves. I think it would be very interesting to collect all the religious writings available from that time period and see which ones "made the cut" and were included in the bible, and which weren't. Maybe I should register for a religious studies class next semester, I need some arts credits anyway and it would be very interesting. : : :The bible (new testament at least) is a pretty good reference for how to treat other people. : : I agree, but like you say, guidelines ONLY, not to be taken as a "hard and fast route to Heaven". : Indeed, this is how I feel about religious writings. Understand the moral concepts, don't take the stories as being literally true. : : :I can't remember most of them, but a good one was how in the original hebrew, the word they use to talk about Mary means "young girl" in the context used, not virgin. : : Can we look at Latin for a few minutes here. How much of the Latin language to we really understand? Very little, even among the experts, it's a dead archaic language that's very difficult to translate. Now lets switch back to Hebrew...see any similarities? : The difference with Hebrew that I see is that Jews around the world actively learn and speak it to keep up their heritage, whereas nobody actively speaks Latin anymore. : : I think it would be very easy to mis-translate something that is very poorly understood. Think of it this way for a second: if I was looking for a way to disprove something the Bible, wouldn't it be easy for me to intentionally MAKE the "mistake" in order to acheive the desired effect, and then go public with my "mistake"? : Yes, but this is how I see that the idea of the "virgin" Mary has made its way into English bibles and into modern Christianity. Essentially, the people who originally translated the bible hundreds of years ago picked the word "virgin" instead of "young girl", and then based a whole subset of the religion around it. : : It's impossible NOT to get worked up with a topic like this, but I'm not sure I understand the last part of the above statement though...which religious leads are you speaking of when you say they operate contrary to what they claim? I've never heard of the Pope getting stoned and having orgies in St. Peter's Basilica... : No, but the current Pope as overturned many religious decisions from , essentially reducing women's rights and indirectly helping to suppress the poor. Not to mention the complete inaction by the previous Pope during the holocaust. : : :What are you talking about? This is the guy who said "Shove your statistics up your ass"! : : That because neither you nor I can guarantee the validity of those statistics, which immediately invalidates them. : Surely you could have said it this way instead of just swearing at me. Anyway, you can't *guarantee* any statistic, but the margin of error is usually very low within the kind of sample sizes used in nationwide and worldwide computations. I'm not sure, but I think Brittanica uses each nations own national statistics company (so for Canada, that would be Stats Canada, which is very accurate). I'm sure in 3rd world countries, or countries without a good information infrastructure, it will be less accurate, but AFAIK that is not the majority of the countries. Besides, I was really only interested in North America. : : I can't imagine why you linked to that site in the first place. : As a simple rebuttal to the "are you feeling left out of society?" comment. The non-religious make up a large percentage of the world's population, and so therefor are a large part of society. I was basically saying that Jews don't feel left out of society, and non-Catholic Christians don't, so why should non-religious people?

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